~Monday, May 16, 2011

The Panty Line

"I spent most of yesterday evening and last night thinking about you," he told me.

Mike, my married ex-coworker, called me the second day in a row. We normally talk about once every two weeks, so this was unusual. I spent the previous afternoon telling him the Statham/Clemson story.

"Are you lonely?" he bluntly asked me.

I sat in the stairwell at work, my lip trembling at the honesty that was forced upon me.

"You're telling me about hooking up with guys in secret and  spending the night at other guys' places--"

"Clemson was being a gentleman," I corrected.

"Bullshit. You were in his bed, naked--"

"I wasn't naked! I just took off my jeans."

"You were in his bed with nothing but a thin stretch of cotton separating you two and he didn't make a move."

"I told you, he was being a gentleman. He kept his pants on--"


"Uh, not that I know of," I said meekly.

"THEN HE'S GAY," he said finitely.

Mike took a breath, "You're worth more than that, Sarah. You're worth more than secret relationships and platonic sleepovers. If I was a single guy and you were in bed with me, I'd be moving those panties to the side, that's all I'm saying."

I never thought of it like that. I knew Statham—and now Clemson, much to my disappointment—were not people worthy of my time, but I never once considered that I was treating myself unkindly.

"What's going on with you?" he pressed again.

My lip trembled again. "It's just," I swallowed. "That breakup in January. It was harder on me than I thought it was going to be. It took me a long time to get over that," I said, my voice barely over a whisper.

A couple of weeks ago, I was perched on my bar stool next to the Leader. I had too many beers and was in a confessional mood. I leaned into him, "I dropped a lot of weight since January. Sometimes I wonder if it would have made a difference to the guy I was seeing at the time."

"It wouldn't have," he admitted. "If a guy really liked you, 10 – 15 pounds wouldn't make a difference. The key is to stay uninterested."

It was both good news and bad news. Good news, Valdosta still would have made the same decision to leave me and there's nothing I could have done about it. Bad news, he still wouldn't be interested in me anymore. Either way, the news was liberating; Valdosta was donezies.

Mike's voice softened as well. "I know. I know that was hard on you. But you're worth so much more than what you're subjecting yourself to. You're letting these guys treat you like shit, and you're not shit, Sarah.

"And Clemson, he's just weird," he continued. "You're so outgoing that you don't want to date a guy like that. 'He's a good guy but he's scared of microwaves,'" he mocked. "You don't want a guy that comes with a disclaimer. I'm warning you now, if my wife ever gets hit by a bus, I'm coming after you."

I laughed and sniffed back the tears. Government Mule and Mike build me up. They act like all I have to do to get some guy interested is blow an eyelash off my fingertip. But it's simply not true. When it comes down to it, Mike was right. Clemson, who should be so lucky, didn't cross the panty line.


MissM said...

Yep. People act like all it takes to snag a man is to be pretty. Okay... I can be pretty. On my prettiest day, men walk right by. And even if I get attention, it takes more than being pretty to sustain a relationship.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad you have friends that will remind you that you are worth more...it's a hard thing to remember sometimes. I laughed out loud about the Clemson being gay thing...I never would have thought of that angle :-P

Maura said...

It's like it's a no win situation. You have a sleepover and he behaves - so he's gay. If he makes a move, he "only wants one thing." But I guess none of that has anything to do with him sitting on the sidelines after you got smacked in the face during the game - gay, straight, panties on or off, his ass should have showed some kind of concern.

Being lonely makes us do F'd up shit - I say this as an expert. But I know you're strong enough to find what you deserve - and it is not these boys.

Love to my blog twin.

Red Stethoscope said...

Mike is right; you can do better. The quality guy won't require you to do anything to get his attention. He'll be smart enough to recognize what's in front of him and make his move without you having to try.

heisschic said...

ehhhhhhh maybe. i mean, mike's right- the dude seems afraid of everything... but there are SOME guys left who want to get to know you before getting into your pants.

i've been with my guy for awhile now... but he threw me out of his bed before we started dating. i was rather intoxicated, it was my birthday, and i didnt want to sleep alone. he tossed me off the bed by my ankles, and i slept on a cat fur encrusted couch.

im not saying that to encourage you to give clemson a second chance--- he clearly has been neutered.

Me said...

Do you feel that's an appropriate friendship? That hes' thinking about you all day...how he would have moved your panties aside?

I would be pretty uncomfortable with that, if I were his wife....

watch out.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Me's comment. It's nice you have a supportive friend, but some of his comments are way out of line. How do you think these comments would make his wife feel? And how would you feel beinging in a committed relationship and learning they were saying things like this to another woman? Your friendship goes too far-and perhaps this is why part of your "core group of friends" are jumping to conclusions about your interactions with Schmoozer.

Anonymous said...

Yeah... I am giving Mike the benefit of the doubt, because I try really hard not to be PsychoWife. However, if I'd heard my husband utter those words over the phone to another woman, I might lose my mind. But then I guess it really depends on whether or not my husband has been up front with me about the relationship he has with that woman and if he makes it clear that he doesn't actually *want* me to get hit by a bus. The tone of voice in which he made those comments also means a great deal. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see everyone's point who is warning you about Mike, but I can also see a possibility in which he's on the up-and-up.

Sarah said...

The relationship is entirely appropriate. I don't see him in person; we keep up with bi-weekly phone calls. Those words were meant to uplift me and help me see that I am desirable and to aim higher in the men I choose to associate myself with. I do not flirt with him. And he did say he hoped his wife didn't get hit by a bus. He goes for the funny factor as evidenced by the microwave comment. Clemson is in fact, not afraid of microwaves.

Me said...

I usually agree with you. In this case, I'd say that I firmly believe men and women can't just be friends and that a married man who has conversations of this nature with a female friend is looking for some sort of escape on some level. Unless his wife is totally plugged into your friendship and knows all about you. Do you call him at home? Does he call you from home? Is it totally out in the open?
He can uplift you all he wants, put yourself in his wife's shoes. I am pleased to say I have a wasband, not a husband, but if I would overhear him say to a woman "I would have moved your panties aside, that guy must have been gay" I would be pretty pissed.

In my case, my single guy friends who have gotten married? Our friendships did change. Overtime. Not immediately. but with none of them I still do the "oh my god, I had the worst fuck of my life last night" talk anymore. They have babies, I know their wives, seems not cool for me. However, my gay married friends, I do that with them ;)

Bathwater said...

Commentors jump to conclusions way to fast on your blog Sarah. My friends and I say shit like that all the time. Mike is right you are better than the guys you have been meeting but that is not your fault. You are putting yourself out there and making youself available. You will find a good guy and these commentors will have no more stories to bitch about.

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering if we know the same "Mike."

Great guy, but the conversations are totally innappropriate when one - or both - of us is in a relationship.

j said...

I don't think what Mike said is inappropriate. I have a close male friend that says shit like that. I think he even said the "then he is gay!" line once too. His wife knows all about me and is also a close friend, so maybe that makes it ok, who knows.

I think Mike is right. You deserve better than these guys.

Breeza said...

I agree with Mike too. Clemson can't seem to figure out you are totally awesome. His loss. Onto to the next one!

Je m'appelle Danielle said...

I have conversations about my dating life with my guy friend at work, who is married, all the time, and its the guys that are married that seem to give the great advice. Its not flirting, its just friendly support in a bad situation.

There is a difference, its a thin line, but its there.

Second point, I hear you on the hard breakups, I was in the same boat, however now that I know what I want and the bullshit and drama I refuse to go through to get it, I feel better off. The whole situation you have been going through would be too much for me to handle and I would have told that entire group to fuck off.

J said...

Mike's comment about Clemson being afraid of microwaves = awesome. I think his conclusion is right- you deserve more. Way, way more. But I feel your frustration, boyyyy do I feel it- I think happily married people look at us single folk and go, "look how easy it is, you can date anyone you want." But dating is HARD. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, or just extremely lucky.

V said...

I still feel bad about going over to an ex-girlfriend's place last year and not even making the slightest moves on her...

treacle said...

Mike sounds like a nice, supportive male platonic friend. I have a few of those.

Whatever Clemson didn't do with you in his bed is nothing compared to what he didn't do with you flat on your back on the field.

Nuff said.

Being unkind to yourself though? Surely that's gotta stop?! xoxo

Anonymous said...

This is bullsh**. Now you're veering into mistress territory. Lol. I guess this affair will be good for the blog. Will keep me reading. It's like a soap opera now.

Seriously tho Sarah, how can you be so fu**ing naive? Just the nature of the conversation IS flirting. The god-damn subject matter. If I was his wife I wouldn't want you talking like that with my husband and I would put a stop to it PRONTO!I bet you dollars to doughnuts that he would NEVER say those things to you in the presence of his wife.

There is nothing worse than an already insecure girl who has lost a ton of weight but still needs validation from the outside world. And men. Your men issues are so huge they are not issues, they are subscriptions.

When will you realize that you ATTRACT what you project and when will you realize that when you start honoring yourself properly you will attract the partnership that compliments you, lifts you up, honors you, adores you, protects you and respects you.

Until then, I dunno. Keep writing this entertaining drama-drivel but you'll never have anything real. This Mike is dangerous and he wants you to fling about his universe until you're discarded and used and it lands on the 'He Loves Me Not' scrapheap of broken possibilities.

Harsh? Maybe? Sometimes detachment brings a clarity that one can't see or feel when mired in the circumstances. He is right about one thing. You ARE better than all that and all those losers friends of yours. But this also includes married men who flirt so bloody OVERTLY with single girls under the age old guise of "friendship." Tell yourself what you want to fill whatever void needs filling in that moment but you're only cheating yourself. Again.

Albert Einstein once said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

Let's just sit back and watch where this one goes, shall we?

Sarah said...

This is the last time I'm going to comment on this friendship of over 5 years. Everything about him is exaggerated. He doesn't make a move, he "moves the panties to the side." He and his wife don't separate or divorce, instead she hyperbolically gets hit by a bus. Clemson isn't just shy and a gentleman, he's afraid of microwaves and gay.

This isn't a demonstration of flirting or an inappropriate relationship. This is consistent demonstration of someone who talks in an exaggerated manner.

And really, Anonymous with all of my men "subscriptions," do you really think so little of me that I would take part in an extramarital affair? That's how my family was broken up and that's how I got all of my issues. I would never inflict that on someone else.

And I didn't lose a ton of weight. I dropped a pants size. Don't put your fat girl psychology on me.

Anonymous said...

So even though all these noters have been telling you this entire time that you deserve better than these crap guys and you're putting yourself through hell for no good reason, it hasn't dawned on your until a flirty married ex-coworker tells you this?
I suppose we all see our own realities, but honestly that's a little disappointing.
And agree with anonymous above--honestly, he could be a supportive friend without some of the comments ("I've been thinking about you, I would've moved them to the side"...) It's one thing to tell you you're worth more than you're giving yourself credit for, it's another to blatantly talk about some form of sexually physical interaction (even hypothetical!) , no matter whether or not you actually meet in person--that's easily changed by a little extra effort of traveling vs. picking up the phone. And even if you argue that, are you saying it wouldn't be okay for him to speak that way if you two did see each other? Words can be indicative of desired actions, whether over the phone or in person.

Shanny said...

You know your friends better than some gutless wonder on the Internet. Sounds like you've got the guy cased.

I've got a couple of friends who have always "almost" hooked up, and believe me, the things I say to both of them are on-par with what Mike says to you (and yes, I questioned his sexuality...to his face). Odds are his wife is just as cool with it as you are.

Sometimes the best thing for someone is a straight-talker. I'm glad you've got that source.

Erin said...

I'm going to comment on the actual point of the post first- I think it's great that you realize that you are better than this, no matter who made you realize that. Regardless of what Clemson did or didn't do when you were in his bed, the fact that he didn't bother to check on you when you were ignored speaks volumes about his character. A guy who sees any woman get hit in the face, let alone one he knows, and doesn't ask how she's doing when given multiple opportunities to do so is a douchebag. Plain and simple, no psychological evaluation necessary.

On the second point about married people and single people being friends- I believe that people can have platonic relationships with (married) straight members of the opposite sex. In the case of Mike and your explanations, some people just have bolder and brasher personalities and say things that others would consider risque. Many men also exaggerate in the presense of everyone, especially females, to look cool/funny/whatever they are going for.

However, speaking as a married woman, if I heard my husband say that he would "move those panties aside" if he were single, I'd be pretty pissed. Conversely, I think he'd be angry if I said that I would "pull down those boxers" or the equivilent to a male friend. It has more to do with a level of respect for your spouse that was not present in this particular conversation with you. He may not have considered it that way, and you may not either, but if you can assume that a wife would be angry hearing it, he shouldn't have said it.

However, you did NOTHING wrong and are not flirting with an affair or any of this other garbage.

Anonymous said...

How many times do you have to be told your better than that... I'm not sure you are, you treated Clemson like crap, totally played him by shagging his friend, used him when it suited you (by the way does he know he has also been used as fodder for this blog) and now that he has lost interest in being played you're finding comfort in your married friends talking about pulling your knickers aside.

Meanwhile you have spent the last four months undermining your 'friend' Kate by being the 'cute fun randy' female friend to her boyfriend who no doubt you will next roll in the hay with. The way you have been so demissive of her feelings and point of view shows she shouldn't count you amongst her friends.

Lately there has been a tone to your posts that gives the impression you think every man in your life is secretly in love with you, maybe that is unintentional, or that's just how you roll, but it makes me want to say stop throwing yourself pity parties, get real and be a friend to Katie and everyone else in your life.

Mary said...

I love how the anonymous commenter at at 9:02 and 11:45 is obviously the same person, and is either British or pathetically into Harry Potter. This person has left incredibly critical and preachy remarks before, the hallmarks of a housebound mouth-breather. I also love how this person can be as cruel and inept as possible on the Internet (and that's saying a lot!) but shrinks away from actually writing out the words "bullshit" and "fucking." Because THAT'S what we'd find offensive. Right.

Anonymous said...

I think your friend is supportive and not trying to get in your pants. I could be wrong, but my inner feelings tell me he is not. But my inner radar could be all whacked. Who knows?

There were some very good comments though...Clemson, Stratham whatever their fricking names are...Walk away from these boys, and yes they are boys, are NOT WORTHY of your time. You are so much better than these dick heads. Yes, I called them dick heads.

Dick heads to the fullest degree. Good lord. I do not know if you plan on having children, but would you like your future daughter to deal with this dickery?

You will be just fine girl. I really think you have to seperate yourself from this bullshit. Unless you really enjoy drama.

Up to you. Hope you don't think I am obnoxious biatch. Just calling it as I see it.

Angela said...

Hey- I've been housebound, no so social life, etc (panic attacks and avoiding douchebags, both male and female), and I don't leave comments like that. I know the urge to defend - I've come back here and been thinking about saying something, but there are plenty of people out there in the good old real world, who are judgemental, and what have you.

Angela said...


I'm sure that you won't 'go there' with the married man. I also know that it can take a long time for something to sink in - like people telling you that you're worth more than that. One day it just really, finally hits you.

Angela said...

If they were British, like me, then "honors" would be "honours".

I'll shut up now. Sorry, Sarah.

jo said...

mike may have not necesarily acted appropriately for a married guy but i think he gave good advice. you are indeed worth more.

Anonymous said...

I am the 'anonymous' that posted the bullsh** comment and that's the only one I have posted. Sorry to disappoint the conspiracy theorists out there. And, I live in Canada.

Vicki said...

I've been reading for awhile and haven't ever posted. Please don't let other people's comments get you down and because of that not update. There are many of us who would like to know what's going to happen next!

Anonymous said...

What a comment thread! I'm honestly inbetween the two viewpoints. I do think you have failed to own your actions in this. You have presented yourself to this group in a way that says one thing, while you're actually someone else entirely. Not intentionally, we've all done it. But you can see how Clemson could feel a bit stupid, especially if he liked you and simply was trying to be a gentleman - only to hear, probably from a passive aggressively boasting Statham that the two of you had slept together. Not to mention you lied and denied, which makes you look shady. I know why you did, but looking at it from the other perspective makes you see how they could view all of this.
As to Katie, you have been dismissive of her feelings. You're alienating yourself from the old group and throwing yourself in with a group that belongs in the hallway of a high school. It's not easy finding a new bunch to run with, so please don't think I'm tearing you down here. I'm not. I've read this blog for years and think alot of you and your growth as a person. I'm just saying you have some responsibility in all this and it has been sort of a victim mentality on here lately. And you are better than that, and this nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Come back, Sarah! My evenings havent been the same since you stopped updating.

Angela said...

I was thinking Canada, Anon. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I just wondered what the comments on someone obviously being English, were about.

Anonymous said...

Hi Sarah,

I had to laugh after I read this post because it sounds like something that my boyfriend would say to one of his girl friends and then tell me about it afterwards!! And I trust him 100% and I'm glad that he has female friends. I guess I learned to feel this way from my parents - my dad is also known to say similiar outrageous things, and my parents have been happily married for over 30 years. As my mom would say, men LOVE women and its the ones that say it out loud that you never have to worry about. But I'm sure that it never entered your mind that Mike was crossing a line. People are just overeacting, maybe because of situations that happened in their own lives. On the other hand, I think its sweet that Clemson didn't make a move, he probably really liked and respected you, despite his recent behavior. So take care, and be sure to post soon!!

Anonymous said...

I think another Sara says it well:

Who cares if you disagree?
You are not me
Who made you king of anything?
So you dare tell me who to be
Who died and made you king of anything?

Fuck the trolls, lovey, who the bloody hell are they anyway? ;) x


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